Theresa May Got It Half-Right

Theresa May

Theresa May

It was interesting to read reports that Home Secretary Theresa May is to tell the Police Federation at their Bournemouth annual conference, that in future, police killers will get life without parole. Currently, the sentence for killing a police officer is thirty years, but the government are in the process of making that a mandatory life sentence, meaning life. So in other words, if you kill a police officer you die in prison.

I read with interest the comments from readers on this piece of news, and was not surprised to see that everyone said the same thing, it should be life for all killers. “What is so special about the police, why not everyone?” I have to say that for premeditated murder at least, this should be the case. Since we have done away with the death sentence, many killers have escaped true justice with paltry sentences that make a mockery of the law, and that has to stop.

Police Tractor - Used For Chasing Farmers in The Countryside.

Police Tractor – Used For Chasing Farmers in The Countryside.

Since 2000 there have been twelve police officers killed in the line of duty, which you may not think is many considering the number of civilians who have died, but you have to remember that we, the people, pay these individuals to deliberately put themselves in harm’s way to protect us. For that they should have some justice from us, and the justice system. I readily admit that as a police force they are not always ‘lily white’, but compared to forces in most other countries they are one of the very best, so why should we not protect them.

No-one Complained When Saddam Was Hung

No-one Complained When Saddam Was Hung

It is a fact of modern life that you hear almost every day of someone, somewhere, being killed unlawfully and yet we hear all too often of the killers getting away with a seven year sentence or less. In some cases the Human Rights Laws have been used in court and the killer has walked away Scot free. This is not justice!

The Bulger Killers

The Bulger Killers

I have always held the belief that the one true way of making people think twice before killing someone is the death penalty. When I was young, you could almost count on your fingers the number of murder victims a year, because these people knew that when they were caught they would be ‘hung by the neck until dead’! Now there is no such deterrent and they literally ‘get away with murder’.

Is This British Justice?

Is This British Justice?

We have these days, killers as young as nine and ten years old and yet the justice system seems totally unable to hand out ‘just’ sentences. As a prime example of this, the Bulger killers did not spend long in jail before being released, despite beating to death a two-year-old. The investigating detectives described them as ‘pure evil’ in the making. When you consider that our prisons today are more like five-star hotels than a place of punishment, it just makes the whole situation worse. Being ‘banged up’ is like a holiday compared to what it used to be.

The Scales of Justice?

The Scales of Justice?

I agree wholeheartedly with Theresa May’s proposal for it has been long overdue, however, like most people I don’t think it goes far enough. To reduce crime we need to be tough on crime. We need to make sentences and our prison service so tough that no-one ever wants to go back, and only then will we see a significant drop in crime figures. To hell with this ‘Human Rights’ crap, for all that has done is tilt the scales of justice in the criminals favour. Lets start being really tough on crime.

Roy.

Post Addition: This is to show how easy prisoners have it in British jails. For those that commit crime, be it burglary, robbery or murder, there is nothing to make them afraid of going back, as there used to be.

TV, Hi-Fi, Play-Station. Is This A Deterrent To Commit More Crime?

TV, Hi-Fi, Play-Station. Is This A Deterrent To Commit More Crime?

Fully Equipped Gym - All Paid For By The Tax Payer.

Fully Equipped Gym – All Paid For By The Tax Payer.

Let's Play Some Pool!

Let’s Play Some Pool!

Prison Cell American Style

Prison Cell American Style

Nice and Easy - No Pressure Here!

Nice and Easy – No Pressure Here!

OOPS! Two To A Cell, That Counts As Overcrowding. We Had Better Release One Of You.

OOPS! Two To A Cell, That Counts As Overcrowding. We Had Better Release One Of You.

Now This Is Real Overcrowding!

Now This Is Real Overcrowding!

UK Homicide 1955-2007

UK Homicide 1955-2007

Prison Population 1900 to 2008

Prison Population 1900 to 2008

Pretty self-explanatory really. It is plain to see that prisoners in UK jails have a very easy time whilst ‘inside’, and there is really nothing to fear about going back. Certainly not for a killer!

Roy.

6 Responses to “Theresa May Got It Half-Right”

  1. Roy.
    We simply aren’t going to agree. And that’s okay but your additional statistics and photographs are so misleading and I must balance this out a little.

    There is more homicide in the UK but there are considerably MORE PEOPLE in the UK than there were at the initial recording points of both the graphs in your piece.

    Your photographs also fail to compare like with like. You have shown UK PRISONS and US JAILS. In the USA (which is where I think your photos are from) there is a difference between jail and prison. Jails (in the USA) are more spartan, basic and forbidding. It is where prisoners go pending arraignment (and remand), pre-trial or for short sentences.

    USA Prisons/Penitentiaries have more similarities to ours than you might think. And (it must be said) the USA are not signatories to the ICHR which means they can pretty much do what they like in terms of packing them in (so to speak)!

    I know perhaps I shouldn’t have started the “Human Rights” thing here. HR seems to raise your hackles!

    We could go round and round on this and fail to have a meeting of minds.

    Keep well – I mean that!

    Jeff

    Like

    • Hi Jeff,
      Sorry for the slight delay in replying, I had the whole thing 99.9% finished when the power went off. I lost everything and now must start again. However, its always nice to have your comments, even if we don’t agree. I guess we must once again agree to disagree on this subject!
      I have done some more research, and the population of Britain in 1900 was 36,686,000 and rose to 63.200,000 by 2011 (Thanks to Tony Blair), an increase of 26,514,000. From 1900, the murder rate was in steady decline until 1968. The murder rate for Great Britain was 6.2 murders for every million people in 1960, but as soon as the death penalty was abolished in 1968 it steadily climbed year on year until in 2002 it reached 20.3 murders per million. This is more than a threefold increase in murder since 1968. Last year (2012) 550 people were the victims of killers, people like old-age pensioners, Betty Yates, 77, 86-year-old Una Crown, 73-year-old Joseph Griffiths, Norman Moffatt, 73 – the list goes on and on and those are only a few of the pensioners. Most murders were committed by youths who were out to rob and ended up being discovered, or were muggings. If we still had the death penalty, these people would be alive today along with many others, for the threat of death by hanging, or any other method, would have stopped these stupid youths from killing their victims.
      I am sorry Jeff, but I will never agree that our prisons are giving the inmates a hard time. I agree the US may have been a bad example, but compared to many foreign countries, our prisoners live in the lap of luxury and that is no deterrent to again commit offences against the law of the land. The do-gooders even claimed that the sight of bars on the windows was ‘detrimental to the prisoners well-being’ and now they all have curtains. Last year there were reports that it was planned to give every prisoner a phone in their cell! It’s sick! The current wave of thinking seems to be that we can ‘educate’ the criminals not to do it again, but the statistics show that most go out and re-offend, often within days.
      You raised the point of the Human Rights Charter that Britain signed up to. Well in my opinion, it has brought nothing but trouble. Criminals get away with the most serious of offences under the Charter, and in particular the infamous Article 8 the Right to Family Life. Abu Hamsa, the well known radical Muslim preacher who was finally extradited to the USA in October last year played the HR game for 10 years. Abu Qatada has escaped justice for 13 years, and May is still trying to deport him. That is what the HR has done for this country. It ties our own judiciary by the hands and feet. We had a perfectly good system of our own without the Euro parliament telling us what we can and cannot do regarding justice for criminals. Don’t get me wrong here, I think it is a good and necessary piece of legislation, especially in these times of ‘enlightenment’.
      Years ago people were Christians and lived by a moral code that guided their actions and gave them a sense of responsibility, now we have agnostics and atheists everywhere. With the coming of the ‘Age of Enlightenment” in the middle sixties everything went down hill from there. No-one gives a hoot for others, and if someone is lying on the pavement in a bad way for some reason, the only people who will stop and help are the old ‘uns! Most other people will either just walk by or cross the street. I quote you the case of Michael Saxby, the 83 year-old crippled war hero who was mugged in broad daylight in a crowded Tesco Supermarket car park, and even though he called for help, his pleas fell on the deaf ears of those walking past. Serious punishment for offenders is the only way back to normality as far as I can see, but I know it will never happen for we have gone too far down the road to hell.
      Best Regards,
      Roy.

      Like

  2. Jeff Black Says:

    Hi Roy,

    Make your mind up. One minute, they are Police and NOW you say they are “civilians”. And they deserve BIGGER AND BETTER laws/justice than you and I. No thanks.

    Aso Ibrahim Mohammed DID receive a custodial sentence, you just didn’t like the size of it! (For what its worth, I didn’t like the size of it either). What he did was truly awful but nobody could prove that he MEANT to kill the little girl and Death by Dangerous Driving was the only conviction that could be secured! He only invoked his right to family life when the UK attempted to deport him.

    The killers of young James Bulger were children. And I think that does explain (although not excuse) what they did.

    YOU were the person who placed Iraq (and Saddam Hussein) in your piece so it is somewhat unfair to criticize me for comparing the UK with other countries.

    As it happens, with regard to prisons you couldn’t be more wrong. I have had the “warts and all” tour of several (open and high-security) prisons, so I KNOW you’re ill informed here. I can’t expand any further without telling you what I do for a living.

    I think your comparison with today and 50 years ago is viewed (quite literally) through the lenses of the 24 hour news media and internet sensationalism culture. I could be wrong here. I don’t know you well enough to make that assumption (perhaps). I do believe that violent crimes can suffer from overkill (no pun intended) on our screens. Maybe it just SEEMS like there is more violent crime.

    One thing that I do know is: THE DEATH PENALTY DOES NOT DETER WILLFUL MURDERERS!

    I don’t know what the answers should be Roy. But locking them up forever isn’t the answer. And neither is killing them.

    Regards – Jeff (The Liberal “Namby Pamby”)

    Like

    • Hi Jeff,
      Welcome back. I guess you take some convincing, but never mind, each of us are entitled to our own opinions.
      1. I think you are splitting hairs a bit here, for they are not like the armed forces are they? Just because they don a police uniform does not make them any less civilians than bus drivers or railway porters. I never said they deserve BIGGER and BETTER protection than the rest of us, I said they do deserve “some form of protection as far as possible by the law”. Naturally, that goes for the rest of us also. Something that is not happening at the moment.
      2. I am sure Aso Ibrahim Mohammed did not mean to kill the little girl, but considering he was an illegal awaiting deportation in the first place, did not have a licence or insurance, and had a long history of crime in the UK If he had stopped, called an ambulance and helped the girl she would be alive today. He ran because he was already up to his neck in trouble with the police and immigration authorities. I find that he deserved far more than a two months jail sentence, or are you trying to justify his sentence?
      3. I agree that the Bulger killers were children, and I am also aware that even in the days of the death sentence, there was a minimum age at which such a sentence could be carried out (i.e. 21). I do however think they were let off lightly for what they did. Perhaps you think otherwise?
      4. You are correct with your comment on Saddam, and to be fair, I did not criticize you for comparing the UK with other countries. Compared to most, life for prisoners in the UK is a ‘breeze’.
      5. If you had a guided tour around some of our prisons then you must have seen that prisoners have their own TV, and/or hi-fi system and some even X-Box, and Play-stations in the cells. They also have well outfitted gyms, all at tax payers expense I might add. There is more than sufficient evidence to back this up. It was reported in 2008 that some prisoners were given game consoles costing the tax payer £221,726. At the time there were around 13,000 game consoles in prisoners hands, although many were self bought. Do you really think these prisoners are hard done by? Take a look inside an american prison and you will see more of what prison should be. I would suggest you take a look at some foreign prisons before you say they are not having it soft in Britain!
      6. I don’t have to compare 50 years ago through the media or the internet, for I have lived it. I am 70 years old and have seen the changes in society over the decades, and if you had lived in those times you too would be disheartened by what you see today. Reference the murder rate statistics I have added to the post. One of the biggest problems today is that we are too soft on crime that leads to re-offending, sometimes within days of release.
      To be honest Jeff, how can it SEEM like there is more crime today?
      7. What you say with regard to the death penalty is partly true, but only that. If someone has made a definitive decision to kill someone come what may, the threat of a death sentence may not deter them. But what of a teenager or older who kills an old-age pensioner because she discovers him in her house during a robbery, as has happened? What about a person who pulls a knife and kills someone during an argument on the street, as has happened? What about someone who has an argument with his girlfriend and stabs her to death, as has happened? Jeff, it will be hard to put the fear of god into hardened criminals these days, but the fact that the death sentence is there will save a lot of innocent lives, and prevent lives being thrown away because of a momentary rash act. People today don’t think of the consequences of killing, because to a great extent there are none. A seven year (Life) sentence and out in three, that’s not a punishment, nor will it persuade criminals to think again. I will admit that a while ago the politicians did not help by starting to release prisoners early “because of overcrowding in prisons”. That makes me laugh, two to a cell and that’s overcrowding? Ken Clark should visit more foreign prisons and then he will know what ‘overcrowding’ is.
      I have added some things to the post as a PS. and I hope it will be sufficient for you to realize that all is not rosy with the current justice system.
      Best Regards,
      Roy.

      Like

  3. With the greatest respect, you’re talking nonsense!!

    1. Police Men & Women are not drafted. They choose to protect and serve – and recognize the inherent risks that come with that choice. including loss of life. That is WHY they are some of the finest in the World. We don’t exactly push them into harms way!

    2. Please name ONE person in the United Kingdom who was convicted of Murder in a UK Court but failed to serve a custodial sentence on Human Rights grounds.

    3. The killers of James Bulger were themselves children – and you would want them hung? If that is your view, then fine, you’re entitled to it. But if you want to be as good (or bad) as the Tin Pot, third world countries you seem to hate, then maybe we should bring back capital punishment.

    4. Your caption is correct we didn’t have a problem when Saddam Hussein was hung – WE DIDN’T CONVICT HIM THE IRAQI PEOPLE DID!

    5. Please name a country that HAS the death penalty that has a ZERO Murder/Homicide statistic? There isn’t one. The Death Penalty is simply trading barbarism for legalized barbarism.

    6. I am going to cautiously suggest that you have never spent a SINGLE NIGHT in one of Her Majesty’s Prisons. I haven’t (either) but I have been to MANY Prisons visiting others – and very recently! This “prisons are holiday camps” rhetoric is total rubbish. I agree that they could be slightly more forbidding but they are not as plush as the Right Wing rhetoric/narrative suggests.

    One final thought, be careful what you wish for. A prisoner with no hope or prospect of release will have nothing to live for. And nothing to lose! That can make him or her MORE dangerous than he or she was to begin with. Which in turn puts the very people you want to protect (Police & Prison Officers) at greater risk than before. Just a thought.

    Like

    • Hi Jeff,
      Nice of you to comment. I fully appreciate your candid views, and will take them one by one.
      1. I, just like everyone else, am aware that the police are neither drafted or coerced into the force. However, as civilians they do deserve some form of protection as far as possible by the law. It does not do police moral any good when a cop-killer does not get a just sentence.
      2. To answer this question I refer you to my blog of 19/11/2011 :Ken Clark Finally Gets Something Right” (https://floroy1942.wordpress.com/2011/11/19/ken-clark-finally-gets-something-right/). In this post I reported on Aso Mohammed Ibrahim, an Iraqi Kurd with a long criminal history, who ran over a 12 year-old girl with his car and dragged her for many metres underneath it. He got out and looked at her as she was trapped under the engine block, and then ran off leaving her to die in the road. If that is not murder then I don’t know what is! He received a four-month sentence of which he served only two, and used the infamous HR Article 8 ‘right to family life’ defence to avoid deportation and was released.
      3. Firstly, I never said that these children should be hung. The Bulger killers were described by police as two serious criminals in the making. They beat 2 year-old James Bulger to death and then left him. After spending a short time in prison, one was taken on a holiday from prison at tax payers expense. One of them was re-arrested shortly after receiving parole and is back inside, so please, don’t try and excuse what they did by saying they were only children, or the mess the law made of their case.
      4. So far as Saddam is concerned, it didn’t seem to bother the Iraqi people either.
      5. If you read the article correctly, you will find that I made a comparison between today and fifty-sixty years ago, not with other countries. Britain in those days had a very low murder count compared with today, and one of the major deterrents, was for killers to know they would receive the death penalty if convicted.
      6. You are right in that I never spent a single night in jail, and I hope I never will. As a visitor I doubt very much if you would be shown the games room, gymnasiums, and cells of prisoners. Today prisoners have TV and hi-fi systems in their cells, they have snooker tables and other leisure activities, plus fully equipped gyms, all for their well-being. They have more facilities than the people on the street. In American prisons they get an exercise yard and a cell with a washbasin, a bed, and a cupboard to store their belongings. In many other countries as we all know, prison conditions are far harsher than even the American jails. So you tell me who is pampered.
      7. And for your final thought, there is something in what you say, but I believe the deterrent factor alone will prevent much of the murder on our streets, especially by teenagers who seem to feel they can kill at will these days and get away with it. I think a lot more people will be safer because of it.
      I hope I have given you more insight into this modern day problem, and given you something to think about. At least it is all my view and no-one is forced to agree with it. Having lived a long time, I have seen the changes going on in society, governments, the law and people’s behaviour. This so-called ‘Permissive Age’ has in fact brought us nothing but grief.
      Best Regards,
      Roy.

      Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

%d bloggers like this: